Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby Midori » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:40 pm

I sent a message to amazon, the one I use, .co.uk, and received those:

Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:07:27
Dear Customer

Thank you for contacting Customer Services at Amazon.co.uk by e-mail.

I apologise for the delay in responding to your e-mail message. Please be assured that all of us here are working very hard to provide a thorough, personal reply to each of our customers as quickly as possible.

I will need to investigate this issue regarding Pocketpedia further.

We will contact you again by August 07, 2009 with an update.

Thank you for your patience and for bringing this matter to our attention.

Warmest regards


Praveen P.
Amazon.co.uk
We're Building Earth's Most Customer-Centric Company


Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:49:26
Dear Customer

Greetings from Amazon.co.uk

We would like to advise that your query regarding pocketpedia is still being investigated.

Please accept our apologies for this delay. Although we endeavour to complete our research within 1 to 2 business days, sometimes it may take slightly longer. Please be assured that we shall contact you shortly with further information.

Thank you for your continued patience and understanding in this matter.

Warmest regards


Praveen P.
Amazon.co.uk
We're Building Earth's Most Customer-Centric Company


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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby bradandbree » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:48 pm

You have to love the irony of this in their signature line...
We're Building Earth's Most Customer-Centric Company

...in a reply regarding this particular issue.
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby thajeztah » Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:35 pm

The first reply is exactly the same message I got (after 10 days)..
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby jicho » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:02 pm

sjk wrote:I wonder why the Hunter Touch iPhone app that syncs with Dvd Hunter (and potential Amazon data) hasn't been pulled from the App Store.


Hi SJK,

I had the same reaction about Hunter Touch, after sending an e-mail I got this reaction:
Hunter Touch doesn't use AWS... so it doesn't violate the new "EULA" of amazon.


In other words, Hunter uses a different way to get the data ;) I think, but I'm not shure, that they capture the data from the webpage and use that.

All together it's a strange story. PocketPedia would be nice even when you would see the picture, title and ISBN number... but that isn't allowed. It looks like Book Hunter and Hunter Touch are the only libraries that have a App for now. I hope the situation changes soon, I want to use the Hunter software of Bookpedia. The only problem is that I can only make a good choice when both apps have a iPhone App.

Greetings,

Eric
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby thajeztah » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:23 pm

Hunter Touch doesn't use AWS... so it doesn't violate the new "EULA" of amazon.


That's very weird, as the problem with PocketPedia wasn't that PocketPedia was using the Amazon service, but that it was capable of syncing data from the Desktop Pedia's which were using Amazon. So if this statement is an official response from Amazon, this would imply that simply removing the Amazon lookup from Pocketpedia is enough to stop violating the new Amazon EULA. (The Hunter Desktop applications also use the Amazon database, just like the desktop Pedias do. So if Hunter Touch is allowed to sync that data, why wouldn't Pocketpedia be allowed to do so?)

From the Hunter website (http://software.joelares.net/blog/book-hunter/):
Get information quering online database (Amazon, IBS): simply search using keyword combination (UPC, Title, Author, …)


@jicho: maybe you can post the whole email from Amazon (maybe it can be used to get further information from Amazon on this?)
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby jicho » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:12 pm

Hi There,

If anyone has a Amazon e-mail adressen I'll send an e-mail to them and see how they react!

For those who have their own website... I wanted to do some testing with SQLite3 (the database behind BookPedia) and iWebKit.net so today I've made and iPhone / iPod web version of a part of the database :) It is as it as, no support and you can do what you want with the code! I'm not responsible for bugs, etc.

In a way this is a work around to have PocketPedia without the Amazon discussion and with more options than the HTML export.

What do you need:
* Your own website
* PHP 5+
* The PDO and PDO_sqlite plugin activated (without this it doesn't work, the other SQLite plugin is for Sqlite version 2)

Upload the code (http://idisk.mac.com/echristiaanse-Publ ... a_v0.1.zip) to your host and replace the online version "Database.pediadata" with your version, found here: /library/Application Support/Bookpedia/Database.pediadata (DO NOT REPLACE THE VERSION ON YOUR MAC!!!!)

This test site contains:
* Browse by category
* Browse by author
* Search (Author, Title, ISBN)

Sorry, there is no demo version.

Have fun!

Greetings,

Eric
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby Conor » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:06 am

Hunter Touch doesn't use AWS... so it doesn't violate the new "EULA" of amazon.


Amazon's agreements are a bit tricky and it's technically true that he doesn't use AWS (Amazon Web Services). Amazon split their product search API away from their web services a while back and are now calling it Product Advertising API, but it's exactly that agreement section 2e that is the problem. It's unfortunate that they made that change as the Web Service developers are quite responsive and helpful. Just yesterday I was asked to participate in survey/feedback process, sadly I was not able to properly complain about this issue as it's now handled by another part of Amazon.
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby JoelAres » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:55 pm

Hi.
I'm the dev of Hunter Touch.
I read rapidly the updated AWS term of uses because Hunter Touch doesn't access AWS directly so i thought that the new term of services doesn't apply.

I was wrong... Hunter Touch potentially violate AWS if the user have data obtained from amazon plug-ins.

Joel

thajeztah wrote:
Hunter Touch doesn't use AWS... so it doesn't violate the new "EULA" of amazon.


That's very weird, as the problem with PocketPedia wasn't that PocketPedia was using the Amazon service, but that it was capable of syncing data from the Desktop Pedia's which were using Amazon. So if this statement is an official response from Amazon, this would imply that simply removing the Amazon lookup from Pocketpedia is enough to stop violating the new Amazon EULA. (The Hunter Desktop applications also use the Amazon database, just like the desktop Pedias do. So if Hunter Touch is allowed to sync that data, why wouldn't Pocketpedia be allowed to do so?)

From the Hunter website (http://software.joelares.net/blog/book-hunter/):
Get information quering online database (Amazon, IBS): simply search using keyword combination (UPC, Title, Author, …)


@jicho: maybe you can post the whole email from Amazon (maybe it can be used to get further information from Amazon on this?)
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby thajeztah » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:19 pm

JoelAres wrote:I'm the dev of Hunter Touch.

a bit off-topic, but I had a look at the Hunter desktop applications after reading jicho's post, and wanted to compliment you on your applications, although not as feature-rich as the Bruji products (yet), they look very nice! I think the Coverflow view is more responsive as the Bruji Coverflow (hint hint, nudge nudge, Bruji ;))

JoelAres wrote:I was wrong... Hunter Touch potentially violate AWS if the user have data obtained from amazon plug-ins.

I hope not! That would 'kill' another Mobile App. It really looks like it's time for the affected developers (Bruji, Delicious Library, Hunter) to 'unite' and try to get Amazon to talk.

While on that subject, I'm a subscriber to MacUser (UK) magazine and couldn't find the right contact information on their website, so looked it up in their printed Magazine, if anyone is interested to get in touch with them (I suggested earlier that maybe they'd be willing to write an article on this issue to get some media attention).

(I decided not to put the contact information here (in public), but send the contact information via PM. If other people are interested, send me a PM)
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby Conor » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:12 pm

Hunter Touch potentially violate AWS if the user have data obtained from amazon

I wish you the best of luck staying under the radar.

I think the Coverflow view is more responsive as the Bruji Coverflow

Joel uses Apple's private API for his cover flow. We are hoping that it will become public with Snow Leopard so that we can begin to use it as well. Even if it does not become public we will consider using it in Snow Leopard against Apple's strong discouragement, as we can't have our competitors sneaking up on us.

I'm a subscriber to MacUser (UK) magazine and couldn't find the right contact information on their website, so looked it up in their printed Magazine


Please do write to your favorite magazine. We have written to the magazines but messages coming from users, including those of the competition, are less biased. These letters might lead to an article being written that helps in getting Amazon's Product Advertising API terms changed.
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby jicho » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:04 am

Hi There,

I've juist made a security change (thanks to thajeztah) to the PHP version that I've made recently, you can still download is from:
http://idisk.mac.com/echristiaanse-Publ ... a_v0.1.zip

In case you used the old version please upgrade.

Greetings,

Eric
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby peterbruells » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:13 am

Wow, just found about the pocketpedia and delicious library issue. (I actually own both - DL and the full Bruji bundle).

Thanks for the hint regarding contacting Amazon. I contacted amazon.com and let them now that I'm not a happy customer anymore. That and the Kindle 1984 issue made me rethink my "relationship" with them and I cleared my cart of quite a few high priced items I was going to buy. I'll do the same with the German shop, taking to money to another store – it's not like I can't afford paying a few euros more (if any). It's more of a convenience thing.

I can kind of see their point of accessing their data from a mobile device (though I still consider it stupid), but not allowing syncing is unacceptable.
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby thajeztah » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:52 pm

Welcome aboard, peterbruells :)
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby sjk » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:58 pm

JoelAres wrote:I'm the dev of Hunter Touch.

Just wanted to say thanks for taking time to respond here since I'm the guy who first mentioned Hunter Touch in this thread and who's been recently using Dvd Hunter as an example in others (e.g. here). Also to Eric (jicho), thajeztah, and Conor for their followups. Makes it easier to be mostly lurking in the discussion. :)
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Re: Amazon Killing Mobile Apps That Use Its Data

Postby llanelwy » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:45 am

damn it i was doing so well with my boycot of amazon too. Damn the Guild being an Amazon Exclusive
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